Episode 73: Transgender Communication In The Workplace: Building Bridges Beyond Pronouns With Aby Hawker

May 12

Aby Hawker

Aby Hawker is the founder and CEO of TransMission PR - a consultancy dedicated to helping brands and organisations to confidently navigate the communications landscape in relation to gender diversity. Aby is a CIPR chartered PR practitioner with more than 20 years’ in the industry. During that time she has worked on everything from airlines to aggregates with the past eight years focused on gender diversity, first in-house as Chief Communications Officer for an online clinic providing hormone and mental wellbeing services to the community, and now through her own agency, TransMission PR which supports clients across multiple sectors including hospitality, healthcare, publishing and fashion.

Building a welcoming workplace for transgender employees hinges on understanding, empathy, and a dedication to inclusion. As awareness increases, conversations about respectful transgender communication, supportive environments, and allyship become even more crucial. In this enlightening episode, Sara Murray invites TransMission PR founder and CEO Aby Hawker to discuss various aspects of transgender communication in the workplace. Learn essential terminology, navigate interactions with confidence, and overcome allyship anxieties. Walk away with actionable strategies to make your workplace welcoming and debunk misinformation for good!

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Transgender Communication In The Workplace: Building Bridges Beyond Pronouns With Aby Hawker

Aby Hawker is the Founder and CEO of TransMission PR, a consultancy dedicated to helping brands and organizations to confidently navigate the communications landscape in relation to gender diversity. Aby is a CIPR chartered PR practitioner with more than twenty years in the industry. During this time, she’s worked on everything from airlines to aggregates and for the past eight years focused on gender diversity.

First in-house as Chief Communications Officer for an online clinic providing hormone and mental well-being services to the community and now, through her own agency, TransMission PR, which supports clients across multiple sectors, including hospitality, healthcare, publishing, and fashion. The work Aby is doing is super inspiring to me and I’m so excited to have her on the show for this episode. Aby, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

Overview Of Transmission PR

I’m going to start by asking for an overview of TransMission PR. What is the business? What do you do?

I’ve been in PR forever. It’s in my blood. It’s something that I’m hugely passionate about. Ten-ish years ago, I was working freelance. I was doing anything and everything and I fell into working in healthcare. I’m passionate about writing about things that a lot of people tend to shy away from. I was working with a pharmacy, then I met this incredible doctor who had this vision for transforming access to healthcare for trans people.

She said to me, “I might need some PR. Can you come and be my publicist effectively?” I said yes. I didn’t know anything about anything to do with trans people. I didn’t have any friends. No contact with the community. I thought, “Why would I not want to work in this space? It’s a group of people that I would like to be able to use my skills to be able to help.” It grew from there.

I started off at one day a week and I was like, “This is interesting.” Quickly, it became a 24/7 job. I was living, eating, and breathing all things to do with communications in this particular space and loving the idea of being able to use my PR skills in a way that made a positive difference. After years of working for that particular client in healthcare, I came to the conclusion that I could be doing a lot more if I went back into the agency side, which is where I had historically worked. I worked across sectors and built up my own team. That’s what I did a couple of years ago. I launched TransMission PR. We now work in lots of different sectors and help lots of different amazing brands that want to do better for the community in terms of the way that they communicate.

Challenges Of Awareness And Inclusion

I was going to ask you about how you found this work. I appreciate you answering that. One of the things that I am finding, and I’m sure you’re finding too, is it feels like the awareness and understanding of trans individuals and non-binary people is growing. It feels like a lot of individuals, brands, and organizations want to be part of the solution, but it almost feels like the path forward is very murky. Have you found that with the clients that find you? How are you shedding a light to help guide them through this?

The biggest challenge in this space is the amount of misinformation that exists. Unfortunately, there are very polarizing views on trans identities and what it means to be trans. That has led to a lot of misinformation. Unfortunately, since COVID, the media landscape has changed. There’s a huge onus on clickbait journalism. You have people writing articles that are salacious in terms of their headlines because they want people to click on headlines because the headline clicking generates revenue for the publication.

It’s fueled this trend towards more outrageous articles and more outrageous stories that are not grounded in anything, but because they are getting eyeballs, it continues to generate similar articles. It grows and grows. The average unsuspecting person who either doesn’t know a trans person or has no reason to pay that much attention is being bombarded with all of these stories that are selling a certain narrative that isn’t true.

They’re beginning to build these pictures which is fueling fear and hatred. It’s creating a hostile environment for people who are gender diverse. Anything that we can do to address that as an organization is one of the key things that we do. We help to try to counter that. One of the key things that we focus on is how to help people understand that the narrative that is being pushed out is being done.

These are the places you can go to get the real stories of the people that the media is talking about. Importantly, the fact that trans people represent around 1% of the population. It is a teeny tiny group. Unfortunately, when people are saying articles day-in and day-out, talking about this community, people start to get a skewed picture of what the reality is.

I appreciate the way that you laid that out because I thought you said it very eloquently and very relatable. I think about my Instagram feed and clickbait articles. Even if you don’t click and read what they’re saying, you get that snippet and that’s what people see. I also appreciate the comment that it is 1% of the population. This thing has been inflated to much bigger than it needs to be when it’s not accurate or real.

The Use Of Pronouns

I appreciate you laying it out that way. Can we maybe talk about some of the basics on a glossary of terms? Some of the insecurity that I see around it is from a negativity standpoint or an ignorance standpoint. People don’t necessarily understand what the pronouns mean. Can we talk a little bit about the basics and some glossary of terms for the audience?

There are so many. One of the brilliant things is that there are so many resources out there. If you Google the glossary of terms for transgender, you will find all of the terms you read and need. For me, working in this space, I will often check certain things, but the most common ones are going to be trans men, someone who was assigned female at birth.

When they were born, they came out of their mom’s womb and the doctor said, “It’s a girl,” but that’s not the gender with which they identify. They live their lives feeling that there’s a disconnect and they don’t understand why. It’s because they identify differently to the gender that they were assigned at birth. That would be a trans man is someone who is assigned female at birth.

A trans woman is someone who was assigned male at birth. The same again. You have someone who is non-binary. That would be somebody who doesn’t identify with the binary sense of the gender’s male or female. Gender non-conforming would be somebody who doesn’t conform to societal ideas of what gender is. That’s another useful one.

AFAB and AMAB would be assigned female at birth and assigned male at birth. That terminology is a respectful way of saying, “You used to be a man or you used to be a woman.” It isn’t accurate to say because for somebody who is trans didn’t used to be anything. This is who they have always been. They’re not changing gender. They are transitioning from the gender that they always were to the identity that they have always been.

Trans people have always existed as their true gender identity. Transitioning allows them to live authentically as who they've always been, not to change who they are.

That makes a lot of sense.

Changing from one thing to the other.

I feel like even though you are laying out those quick terminologies, I already personally feel more empowered and how I speak about the community too. I don’t think the typical person is intentionally misspeaking. It’s a lack of awareness. I appreciate that. I had to look up what a cis woman was. I’m like, “What is this? I had got to Google it.”

That was the other term that I thought might be quite useful. A transgender is somebody who identifies with a gender that is the opposite of the one that we’re assigned at birth. Trans is coming from the Latin “across from” or “the opposite of.” Cisgender is on the same side as Latin. It means not trans. It’s the opposite.

All of these words become weaponized. They get used and often you’ll have people saying, “Don’t call me cis. I find that offensive.” It’s not used in an offensive way. It’s only offensive in the same way that the word trans is offensive, which is if you find trans offensive. I can understand that you might find cis offensive, but it’s from Latin. It’s a description.

That’s helpful. I’m thinking from the lens of our conversation. This might be a silly question or a grammar lesson. Sometimes I get confused. I understand she/her and he/him, but when you see the gender pronouns as I see in your Zoom login, you have she/her as your pronouns in parentheses. We’re seeing that more. I don’t have it in mind, but maybe I need to add it. If we’re an individual contributor working with clients, if we’re a leader managing teams, or if we’re an organization outwardly working with clients who may be trans or in this community, can we talk a little bit about the definition of pronouns and how they can be used in the workplace more intentionally?

They are a way that we use the English language so we don’t always have to say the name of the person because it sounds weird. If I was talking about, “Aby is going to the shop. Aby is going to buy something. Aby is coming back later.” Rather than having to keep it, we use pronouns. The direct swap from male to female is if somebody has changed the way in which they present outwardly and they’re assigned male at birth that they are a trans woman. That’s a nice and easy one. They would go from he/him and they would put in their bio she/her when you refer to me.

Not everybody does it. It’s not important to everybody, but it’s a way of signposting and guiding those people who might be interacting with you. It’s useful if somebody is non-binary, for example. They may not identify as she/her or he/him. The person you’re engaging with says they’re androgynous in their appearance. You might be confused because our natural response as humans is to try to box people and find out as much as we know or what we can see so that we can then work out how we’re going to engage with them.

Sometimes, as humans, we seek that. I know we seek those cues that guide us in terms of helping to determine who it is that we’re dealing with. For somebody who is non-binary, it’s a helpful thing that their pronouns would be in their bio because then you’re not going to make any mistakes. If the pronouns aren’t in their bio, which could be they/them, which would be the standard pronoun for somebody who’s non-binary. There are also neopronouns, which some people may use. They’re less common than they/them. Again, that’s something that people can google if they want to know more about them.

The one that tends to trip people up is sometimes someone will have two different pronouns. They might have they/she and/or they/he, or he/they, or she/they. Where that might be in use is if somebody is identified as trans or non-binary. In some cases, it might mean, “I don’t mind how you refer to me. You’re welcome to call me they. You’re welcome to call me she. It might mean the order in which I put them is how I would like you to refer to me but I don’t mind either. In an ideal world, please use the one that I put first.”

The best thing to do is to ask, “Couldn’t help but notice in your pronouns, you’ve mentioned both she and they. Do you have a preference for how I address you?” As always, it is such a kindness to express to somebody who is trying to show the world their authentic selves and to see that and to be able to say, “I see you. I acknowledge you and I will do whatever I can to help you to feel comfortable.” You’re saying that by asking somebody what pronouns they want you to use. That’s the easiest way to get it right. Ask the question.

That was one of my questions. How is it? Can you say that script one more time, Aby?

Essentially, one area in which people can get quite confused is when pronouns include both two options. For example, somebody might be trans or non-binary, and rather than she/her or they/them, they may have they/she. In cases where people have two options available, the best thing you can do is ask them how they would like you to refer to them. It’s a brilliant way of telling that person that you see them and you understand the way in which they identify and that you want to get it right. It’s a kind way of acknowledging their identity.

That’s great. We do so much stuff digitally now like Zoom, LinkedIn, and email signatures. There are a lot of ways to put this in writing. Can we talk a little bit about an in-person interaction and how to ask some of those questions in person?

We’re quite a long way off if I’m completely honest. It’s still something that makes people feel awkward and uncomfortable because they do not want to get it wrong. They don’t want to embarrass anyone. Inherently, humans tend to be quite kind and we want to make sure that doesn’t feel othered or exposed in any way. Also, you don’t feel embarrassed by getting something wrong. In a one-to-one interaction, in a real-world interaction, you can take the lead.

The way in which cisgender people can up their allyship is to put their pronouns in their bio or introduce themselves with their pronouns. I would say, “Hi, my name’s Aby. My pronoun is she/her. It’s nice to meet you.” The person that you’re engaged with, if they are gender diverse, gives them the opportunity to say, “Nice to meet you. I am X. My pronoun is X.”

That’s helpful. I was conducting a training and one of the things we talked about in my workshop was how to use people’s names intentionally and how this can establish feelings of connection. Somebody asked me that question, “What do I do if my client or my guest is a trans individual? How do I ask them?” I told them to tune in to this episode when it comes out because I said, “I’m going to be talking to Aby so we can get some clarity on it.”

Addressing Fear And Insecurities In Allyship

I did read that that’s one way to establish allyship like, “My name is Sarah. My pronouns are she/her.” It sets that stage. I appreciate you sharing that framework with us. That’s helpful. I’d like to talk a little bit, Aby, about the fear that you mentioned. I feel like I empathize with that. I was a little bit anxious to put together this episode because it’s the same thing. I want to come across as respectful, kind, and loving to all people but I’m nervous to make a mistake and accidentally offend someone or misspeak. I’d like to talk a little bit about the fear that people have when it comes to showing their allyship. What are some maybe mindset tips or techniques we can use to work on these insecurities?

Knowing that the way you feel is not unusual. That’s important. Ultimately, if you’re interacting with somebody who is gender diverse or who is trans, I can guarantee they feel more nervous than you do. Just acknowledging that you see them. It is that whole process of taking the time and being intentional and engaging in a way that is meaningful.

The bar is sadly set so low. We’re so early on in the journey in so many ways when it comes to understanding how to engage with trans people and how to give them space and a voice. Keeping in mind the fact that it’s okay to feel nervous but the other person’s feeling more nervous. It’s just an evolution of language. It’s a change. We are used to change. Look how quickly we adapted to all of the talk around COVID.

It didn’t take very long for us to start a whole new lexicon. Everybody adopted it very quickly. Probably the key thing is that trans people represent around 1% of the population. If you work in an organization of a certain size, you’ve probably got somebody who is trans or non-binary. Especially if it’s a younger demographic.

If not, you might have the parent of somebody or the wife of somebody. There is going to be a connection to the community. The quicker you can stop feeling nervous and start understanding that trans people are a normal part, a natural part of human variation. Being able to acknowledge that and worry a little bit less brings you so far ahead of everybody else.

The sooner you overcome nervousness and embrace the understanding that trans people are simply another facet of human diversity, the more progressive you become.

I like that. It’s almost giving us permission to be open to changing the lexicon. I love that reframe. I had something happen that I gave you a heads up on, but I wanted to ask you about it because I don’t know if I handled it well. I like to know how I should have handled it. I was on the phone with someone and we talked maybe three times. We’re starting to build a nice relationship. I had mentioned that I used to be on a team of old guys with a commercial construction background. Not much offends me in that space.

This individual made a comment that she is very sensitive because of her transition and her hormones. I didn’t know if that was her way of trying to share with me. I didn’t address it because I wasn’t sure if I should have stopped her and asked for clarification, I continued our conversation and I don’t know if that was handled correctly. If somebody gives you those hints or that type of conversation, how should I have handled it differently?

Everyone’s different. To me, that sounds like she was giving you a few hints because she wanted you to engage. She wanted to share. It’s positive that she felt that you were the person that she could share that with, so massive tick there. It’s incredible that she felt able to bring it up in the conversation. You’d clearly created a safe space for her. In the future, if that happens, maybe encourage her and show some interest, “That must have been hard. Can you tell me a bit more about it?” gently without jumping on the trans thing.

I recognized it and I wasn’t sure the right path forward if it made sense to act like this was an everyday thing that we talked about or if I should have asked more questions. I handled it the best I could at the moment so I’m not kicking myself but I am recognizing, “If this happens again, how am I more prepared?” That’s why I wanted to share the example in the show because it did catch me off guard. I wasn’t expecting it but it’s exactly what you were saying. I feel so grateful that she shared that with me. It’s just later reflecting like, “I don’t know if I handled that appropriately.” I appreciate it.

It’s all a learning experience. What you’ll probably find next time you interact is if your hunch is right and she did want to share a little bit, she might bring it up again. She might do it in a different way or you could bring up something unrelated and say, “I had an episode and we were talking about pronouns.” It might be an opportunity without being direct to open that door or give her that platform to chat if she wants to.

Unintentional Mistakes

I appreciate that. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the clients that you work with. Everything we’re talking about is how to be very proactive in the community. I would like to learn maybe what are some of the unintentional mistakes that people are making that you see or the areas to avoid. With your clients, is it more proactive outreach or reactive crisis management? Can you give a little clarity on where to avoid and maybe places where people are making unintentional mistakes?

What’s interesting is it’s human-based and therefore, everything applies. It’s never one-size-fits-all. It’s always a case of testing something and then changing direction if you need to or being mindful that this whole blanket approach is useful and quick but it’s not always appropriate. For example, one of the things we talk about is language.

In the UK, there’s been a lot of controversy around well-intentioned people working in EDNI, trying to use inclusive language, so full period products, for example. Instead of saying women, they say for people. I think that was the language they used. Women felt erased by that language. It’s about making sure that language is expansive rather than restrictive. Keep women in the mix, but expand it out.

Women and those who might use period products, women and those who identify in whatever way they identify. Ultimately, it’s important to test and listen to what people are saying because rightly or wrongly, the way that social media is that a tiny thing can spark a massive fire if you’re not careful. Other times, bigger things will go completely under the radar.

It’s about being as sensitive as you possibly can to all of the different people who might be engaging with your content and trying to be as inclusive as you possibly can. Don’t use restrictive. Don’t be reductive in that language. Bring everybody in. Don’t just think that by using one word, you’re addressing everybody’s needs.

I was in a meeting session, which was interesting. We were talking about there’s a move toward using trans-plus as a word that encompasses genders that sit outside of cisgender identities. A number of people in the room were non-binary, so they didn’t identify as male or female. Also, they didn’t identify as trans. They identified as non-binary.

One of the people in the room said, “It’s interesting how we spend our lives trying to break out of these binary boxes and everyone’s trying to put us back into a different box by using trans as an umbrella term with a little plus on the end. When you’re writing, it’s a lot quicker to put trans plus.” If you write trans or non-binary and other gender-expansive individuals, then people feel seen. It’s about making the effort and taking the time to make your people feel seen in the way in which you engage with them because it matters.

Proactive Measures For Inclusivity

I appreciate that. Looking at the language from an expansive and inclusive as opposed to restrictive, even if it maybe make our lives easier to shorten the typing, how can you look beyond that? What can companies do? If there’s a decision maker or a leader who’s tuning in to this episode and they’re interested in being more proactive in their communications and their leadership style, what are some other areas that they can start looking at in terms of positioning their brand, teams, or organizations in a more inclusive light?

First and foremost, it’s important to understand what I mentioned earlier about the fact that trans people are part of natural human variation. In the same way that you would include anyone from any other minority group, trans people are the same. It’s about taking what you already know and applying a slightly different lens.

Trans people are an important part of natural human diversity, just like people from all walks of life. By approaching them with an open mind and understanding, we can see the world through a richer lens.

This isn’t reinventing the wheel. This isn’t rocket science. It is being considerate and understanding that person or one of the people who are sitting in your room might not feel seen if you say, “All right, ladies and gentlemen.” Where am I? Where am I in this spectrum of ladies and gentlemen? What toilet do I use because I don’t want to go in with the men and in with the women? It’s us.

A good starting point and to do a little bit of research. Even something as simple as watching some films. There is so much information available that is accessible. Films are such a great starting point to understand what it means to identify as a gender that’s different than the one you were assigned when you were born.

Do you have some examples of movies that we can watch or example resources?

I knew you were going to ask me that as soon as I said that and I thought about which films would I recommend. Probably the best thing to do is to send you a curated list because often, the community is so incredibly generous in terms of its desire to educate everybody. Rather than it coming from me, I will go and find you a curated list that’s been put together by someone or a member of the community and I’ll share that with you.

That’s a great resource in terms of how can we educate ourselves more. That’s the bare minimum that everyone can do in any type of group that is marginalized. Let’s educate ourselves. That’s something I’ve been challenging myself to do more of because I do have a certain small lens of the world in some ways. Expanding it gives you more empathy, and more data points and makes you more confident when somebody says something that you’re not ready to address it. I get more empowered by that. I appreciate you and all the things that you’ve shared with us.

Responding To Misinformed Opinions

Let me ask you one other question before we start to wrap up here. Let’s say I’m interacting with someone who did read a clickbait article. They have some opinions that they’re sharing. What can I as an ally do in response to that? Is there a nice script I can use to say, “That’s incorrect.” Give us some language there to use.

Quite interesting because my husband is a pilot. Often, as part of his day-to-day work, he’ll end up in the cockpit chatting with his colleagues and they will inevitably say, “What does your wife do?” At this point, he will say what I do and the response is always very similar. “I’m not too keen on that,” or they’ll start to go down this path of regurgitating the stories that I mentioned.

He often will ask them, “Why is this making you so cross?” He will often say, “If that individual is living their lives in a way that makes them happy, how does that impact you?” He usually ends the conversation by saying, “If someone’s happy, then great. Good on them.” Often the person that he is engaging with will say, “Yes, it is.” It’s not a difficult thing to bring people around to. It’s funny, as superficial as the stories are, often that’s how they don’t go very deep.

They often are very surface levels. It’s quite easy to dispel them to say, “That’s interesting. Where did you read that?” “I read it in the Daily Mail.” That’s a tabloid that pushes out notoriously clickbaity headlines that are not based on fact and pushing an agenda.” It leads to quite an interesting conversation.

In the UK, for example, the conservative government who are currently in power did media interviews saying that they were going to base their campaign for 2024 on the trans debate and various other things. They’re so transparent about it. It’s very easy to be able to say, “You’re reading that and you’re believing that, but did you know that the conservative party is saying these things to create fear and to distract from the fact that people can’t feed their families? The heating bills are going through the roof and climate crisis.” If you think about the amount of money and time that’s wasted trying to vilify this teeny tiny population. You realize this is just a distraction. This is just an attempt to say, “There’s a trans person. Don’t look. The house is on fire.”

That’s the impression that I get too and other topics in the same space where it’s a distraction topic. That’s a big one here too. One of the things that I hope is an encouraging future state is like these opportunities. I know outside of the political fear-mongering, separate from that. I feel like there’s a lot of opportunity to almost level up as a human race like this evolution of innovation.

I’m going to share an example that might be inappropriate. In our analogy, it might be off base. I mentioned I worked in commercial construction and with a lot of hotels. A lot of the hotels that I was working on under design and construction, Uber didn’t exist as a product. Ride-sharing wasn’t a thing. We built all these properties without a lane for ride-sharing then Uber came. Their hotels are struggling. This may be a clunky analogy, but we started designing lanes for the Uber and Lyft cars to come through. It gave designing construction an opportunity to innovate around technology innovation. That’s how I view this topic too. It’s like, which bathroom? Why is this a problem?

I couldn’t agree more.

This is an easy solution. This is not a big deal.

I agree with you. I was reading that Ms. was only introduced in the ‘60s because women didn’t have an alternative to Mrs. or Ms., which immediately told the world whether they were married or not, and women didn’t want that. Mr. is status-free and women want an equivalent. We introduced Ms. and that’s normal for us now. It’s a bit like what we were saying earlier, it’s the evolution of language.

I agree with you that we do have an opportunity here to level up, be better, and learn about different ways in which people experience the world, to know that the amount of time that people dedicate to understanding themselves, just to know that you are in a world that doesn’t see you authentically, and strive to do everything that you can to ensure being authentic. It’s pretty incredible.

The rest of the people who are cisgender were born female. I’ve always been female. I feel very female. I would never question it because I’ve never had to. It’s inherently who I am. It is no different than someone who is trans. It is inherently who they are and yet, nobody sees them as that. They’re spending there a lot of time trying to give the most authentic version of themselves, which is pretty incredible.

You have a world and that’s against the backdrop of a world that’s saying, “No, I’m not listening. I’m not interested in what you’re saying.” That’s why if the more of us can say, “I see you. I will use your pronouns.” The hotels, for example, that I work with have even thought about gender-neutral bathrooms and have considered your needs.

I will have those conversations, which is what I’m trying to do with people who say, “I don’t know what we would do in a situation where we had somebody wanting to use a spa and they felt uncomfortable.” I will go and I will find that. We should be finding out the answer to that question so that we can say, “This individual has absolutely every right to be seen as who they truly are.” It’s a pretty incredible thing.

I am so impressed with the work that you’re doing. Everyone tuning in is feeling your care and compassion coming through. I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom and your guidance with us because I know I feel a lot more empowered after this conversation. I feel more of a drive to educate myself because I want people to feel seen and communicated. Authenticity is something we all say so let’s walk the talk.

The only thing I would add is that I’m a cis person. I don’t get it right all the time. I’m constantly learning. I’m not there to speak on behalf of anyone. I hope that I can maybe open a few doors. Maybe change a few hearts and minds and help people to understand that it’s nothing for us.

I appreciate that perspective, Aby, and thank you for sharing that curated list. We’ll include it in this episode. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you or learn more about TransMission PR?

I’m pretty much everywhere. Aby Hawker on LinkedIn and @TransMPR everywhere else, so TikTok and Instagram. I don’t do much on X because it’s toxic. You can find us there.

Thank you so much for joining us on this episode and I’m sure I’ll talk to you soon.