Episode 105: How to Build Trust: Lessons from Best Selling Author Larry Levine

Jan 6

Larry Levine

Larry Levine is the best-selling author of two books, Selling from the Heart and Selling In A Post-Trust World. He is also the co-host of the award winning Selling from the Heart Podcast. Blending a heart of service with over three decades of in-the-field sales experience, Larry helps sales professionals develop a mindset and skill set for authentic success. In a post trust sales world, Larry helps sales teams leverage the power of authenticity to grow revenue, grow themselves and enhance the lives of their clients. Larry has coached sales professionals across the world, from well-tenured reps to new up and coming salespeople entering the salesforce. They all appreciate the practical, real, relevant, relatable and “street–savvy” nature of his coaching. Larry believes people would rather do business with a sales professional who sells from the heart as opposed to a sales rep who is an empty suit.

Watch the episode here

Here's the conundrum, most people never ask. Most people never ask, but if you ask not, you get not most people will never sit down with their customers, clients, however you want to refer to them, look them in the eye. And say, Sara, thank you so much for doing business with me. It's been a great experience serving you here at ABC company.

I just got into thinking because I'm always on a quest to bring value, as much value as I possibly can to your business, Sara. I'm just curious in looking at this through your lens, what does value look like? How would you describe it? What words would you use? How do you know when you're receiving value and stop. And don't say a word. And you cannot say a word. And there might be, let me tell you, there might be some awkward silence. And I don't care.

They will finally speak. And when they speak, you listen and you keep asking that you ask that to all of your customers. And pretty soon you'll understand how to bring value to your customers.

That simple.

You’re listening to Prospecting on Purpose, where we discuss all things prospecting, sales, business, and mindset.

I'm your host, Sara Murray, a sales champion who's here to show you that you can be a shark in business and still lead with intentionality and authenticity. Tune in each week as we dive into methods to connect with clients, communicate with confidence, and close the deal.

Larry Levine is the bestselling author of two books, Selling from the Heart and Selling in a Post-Trust World. He is also the co-host of the award winning Selling from the Heart podcast, blending a heart of service with over three decades of infield sales experience. Larry helps sales professionals develop a mindset and a skillset for authentic success.

In a post trust sales world, Larry helps teams leverage the power of authenticity to grow revenue, grow themselves and enhance the lives of their clients. Larry has coached sales professionals across the world from well tenured reps to new up and coming salespeople entering the workforce. They all appreciate the practical, real, relevant, relatable, and street savvy nature of his coaching.

Larry believes people would rather do business with a sales professional who sells from the heart, as opposed to a sales rep who is an empty suit. Larry, welcome to Prospecting on Purpose.

Oh, thank you so much, Sara. I've been looking forward to this, so I know we're going to have a great conversation. Thank you for having me.

Oh, I'm so excited we were able to meet. And, Janice Porter gave us an introduction to each other. She was our connector, so I want to give a shout out to Janice. And now that I've read your book, now that I've met you, I totally understand why she put us in touch with each other.

I feel very kindred spirit to you, and I just finished your book, Selling in a Post-Trust World, discover the soft skills that your yield hard results and excuse me, that you're yield. Why am I struggling? Yield hard and I have to tell you, I really liked this book so much because it was very tactical and we are living in a post-trust world.

It's kind of upsetting when you, when you let yourself get in that hole. So I just, I want to commend you for putting it out there because it was a nice anchor that I think people are going to be able to hold on to.

No, thank you. You know, and, it's so interesting because I've had people over the years poke holes at the word post trust.

Really?!

But listen, I go, It's just the, it's a sad situation, but it's the world that we live in today. People just, I mean there's very few people that most people trust. I mean, truly trust. But now if we direct this into the sales world or professional services, and I could even say throw this into retail in the B2C space or the B2B space, unfortunately, we world, we live in this world of i don't trust you until I trust you. And it's post-trust.

In fact, I think post-trust was the word of the year in Miriam Webster, this could have been five, six, seven years ago. And I kind of caught onto it and I'm like going, Hey, you got to learn how to build and establish trust right away. That's why, you know, for those who choose to read Selling in a Post-Trust World. This book will transform your personal life, but it'll also transform your career. If you take the four pillars in the book and you take it to heart.

Yeah. And we're going to get into the four pillars. I think one of the things that you said that really, really resonated with me when I was starting my business, you know, I was telling people, I'm going to teach you how to build authentic relationships and sales leaders, what kind of like this isn't a problem for us. We don't need this.

But when you look at the fact that if trust is what gets people to buy and make decisions, but you can't have a relationship or excuse me, you can't build trust without the relationship. Now, all of a sudden we're solving a problem. So for me, I think it made it a little bit more quantifiable why the relationship matters when at the beginning of my business, I was having a hard time explaining it. So I think that it really puts dollar bills on the problem.

I'm so glad you brought this up here. Here's why, cause I remember I had a mirror moment and this is really how the book came to be and I'm so glad you just, you brought this up. I remember about 3 and a half years ago, not quite four my business coach and his mentor.

We were just, we're all together and they looked me in the eye. And this plays into what you just said. They go, Hey, listen, you're having all kinds of nice, you know, air quote success with Selling from the Heart. However, you got to be able to look an executive in the eye and say, if you implement the foundations of Selling from the Heart, this is how you can turn this into revenue and profit.

So what does Selling from the Heart do? And right away, I said, builds trust and credibility. If you can implement my first book, this will help you build trust and credibility. Then they said, okay, now you're onto something. I didn't know that was the crux of my book, but it plays onto what you just said is you got to be able to look right?

This applies to everybody. You got to be able to look people in the eye and with conviction, say, if you implement What I have to offer, this will help you increase revenue and profit. And so they said, how can you help salespeople, sales leaders implement revenue and profit? It's how you build authentic relationships and really unpack it and how you build meaningful value and unpack it and how you bring an inspirational experience and unpack it and how you become disciplined with it and you unpack it.

They go, now you're onto something, but it plays onto what you just said. And it triggered a thought is most people don't understand how to build an authentic relationship.

And so it is a hard skill.

It is a skill. It's a hundred percent skill. And here's, what's interesting about this is there's a lot of assumptions that are being made.

We assume as humans, we understand how to build. We already know this. Humans are messy. Relationships are messy. And the relationship that you think you have with somebody may not be the relationship that they think it is. And so there's a lot of AB testing that goes on in building authentic relationships. But we just don't understand how to build one. What constitutes an authentic, genuine relationship? I submit to everyone. It starts with the authentic relationship you have with yourself.

I loved that part of the book too, because I don't know if people as a whole spend a lot of time getting to know themselves and building a self relationship. So I loved the, you gave tactics in that on the book.

Yeah, you know, it's like people will look at me, Sara, and they go, man, I don't know if I could buy into some of this. I've walked through it. I've literally have walked through it. I tell people in the last 10 years, I've learned more about myself and what makes me tick that's directly translated out in the business world in helping grow, Selling from the Heart to where it's at, because I was willing to go in and inward, I was willing to look at the relationship I have with myself. What's working. What's not working. By the way, people, this all plays in to your ability to grow the professional side of your life.

If the personal side of your life is in turmoil, mark my word, the professional life will be in turmoil at some point in time. It will come out. I don't mean to take this down a, you know, a dark path, but the internal misalignment you all have will directly play on the outside part, which is your professional life and your ability to earn a living.

Those, you had said relationships are messy and they are. And I think we separate ourselves. It's like, here's work, Sara, over on this hand and here's, real Sara and they don't, those two worlds don't exist, but as soon as you start to really blend the two, then you're being vulnerable, then you're being actually authentic cause you're yourself. And that's when I think true connection can actually happen. Nobody wants to do business with robots or you call them empty suits. Would you explain what your definition of an empty suit is?

Just, you know, it's just to get people to picture this in their head right? I mean, I always say this. If you're failing to educate, if you're failing to engage, if you're failing to excite people into conversations, if you're failing to inspire and influence and bring passion to what you do, they're just going to view you as being empty. If you're not bringing anything to the relationship, if you're not helping them become better, their business become better, all they do is view you as you're not bringing anything to the table.

So as I was piecing together, Selling from the Heart and I had to put a bow on the last chapter, I just said, don't be an empty suit. And now it's just kind of the whole thing is just stuck. I get people tagging me in empty suit pictures and things like that. But in all sincerity, I want just people to conjure in their mind for a moment.

Just emptiness, right? It can't be i mean, most people don't wear suits anymore. So, but you get the whole concept behind it is perception is reality. And if you're not bringing anything to the table, and you know, this mark, my word, you know, when you're not bringing anything to the table. People start to notice and it was so interesting.

I asked a group of salespeople not too long ago. I asked them, do you think in today's world, 2024, people are, your customers are expecting more of you, or less of you than they did before. And it was so interesting, sir, because I got a mixed bag on this one. And some people that said more, and I said, okay, explain.

Once I heard them out, I said, for all those who said they're expecting less of you, why? And the most common responses were like, people can put their orders in now online. People can research things online. People can leverage technology and so forth. Keeping it really simple. And I go interesting.

Now, I'm gonna flip this around. Do you think the reason why they're asking less of you is you're not bringing anything to the relationship that's new? Do you think that you're not bringing any value to the forefront? And then they go, you know what? I really don't need you coming around anymore and again, I'm being really direct with this.

That's the classic signs that you're heading down the road of being an empty suit when your customers start asking less of you because they're asking more of you, you’re sales professional, you're bringing more to the table. You're educating them. You're inspiring them. People look forward to seeing you. I want more of what Sara has to offer. I want more of what Larry has to offer. When you come in, you leave me in a better place than when you walked in.

I love that. That's so powerful. And I think that was, you mentioned it quite a few times in your book and, and I wanted to talk about this. What is the difference between a sales person or a business person who sells? And then you have, you know, sales rep sales professional and I feel very strongly that, It's the sales professional's job to add value to the client's business and that's really, I think what, what your message and your platform really teaches us is the actual ways on how to do that in a way that's authentic to you.

A hundred percent. I just, I just equate all of this to being a commodity and regardless of what you sell. In fact, I think it was Gary Vaynerchuk at one day. It said some, I caught something on a LinkedIn, just scrolling through one day. He said, you all live in a commodity world. You all live in a commodity driven world.

And some people have a hard time really latching around this, but one way to be viewed as not being a commodity. You got to start carrying yourself and view yourself and walk and talk like a sales professional. See, I believe sales reps are replaceable. Some of y'all may not believe me on this. That's okay.

Sales reps in today's day and age are 100 percent replaceable. There's always a sales rep who's going to come around with better speak. They're going to carry themselves in a better sales rep way. You're going to find yourself replaceable. Sales professionals in today's day and age are irreplaceable because there's so few and far between. But I always say sales professionals work harder than on themselves. Sales professionals are non excuse maker. Sales reps will find every reason not to do what sales professionals are doing, but there'll be the first ones to poke holes at them.

I appreciate how direct you are too, because I think that's something that people need to hear. Like in your book, you were talking about no excuses and looking at yourself and self reflection and if you have a relationship with yourself, then it's not going to be as scary to ask for feedback or to see you, you talked about, after a conversation, almost just doing like a mini feedback of what went well in that conversation and what didn't, and, I had a conversation yesterday with someone and they started to say, Oh, did so and so tell you?

And I said, Oh yeah, I heard. And the guy says, no, that's not what I was going to tell you. And it was a good, it was a little like, Ooh, Sara. practice your active listening skills. And it was hard to do, but, I think that that self accountability and self reflection is a lot easier if you have your relationship with yourself.

You know, what's interesting about all this in I'm a big, I love everything about sports and people, and people always want to tie in professional sports analogies to sales, things like that. I go, Hey, listen, if you look at the elite of the elite, if you look at, right, again, love these people or hate these people, that's not the purpose behind this, but you look at the LeBron James and the Kevin Durant's and the Shohei Itanis in the baseball world.

You look at some of the greatest managers that are out there, right? Me being a Dodger fan, Dave Roberts, right? Or this could be Brian Bochy. Yeah, I think that's what his name is. Nevertheless, his last name is Bochy, his name is Bochy, right? But, but nevertheless, these are manager's world.

These people work harder on themselves. They hold themselves to a higher degree of standards. They're the first ones in. They're the last ones to leave. They have a no excuse mindset. They're not pointing fingers. They're reflecting. They're not deflecting. And I just bring this up because professional athletes plan, prepare and practice better than anybody else.

Now, if you're in the sales world, can the same be said of you? Are you planning, prepping and practicing better than anyone else? I'll leave anyone to answer that for themselves. But I remember, yeah, I just got a touch on what you said about being direct. And I learned this a long time ago. This is probably 25, almost 30 years ago.

And the same stuck with me. I was in a workshop one day, I grew up in the office technology space. So I was in a workshop. Bunch of people selling copiers and all that. I was in a two day workshop, listening to some guy talk about leadership and management and the office technology space. And he had these chair moments and these chair moments is when he would stand up on a chair and mess up his hair and then he'd pull out an old pocket comb and he'd comb it back again.

That was just to like, to get everyone's attention. And his saying was this, Sara, you as a leader, you as a manager, you gotta be able to deliver a message with an iron fist and a velvet glove and that stuck into my head, iron fist, velvet glove, iron fist, velvet glove.

It's okay to deliver a stern message as long as you don't beat somebody over the head with the stern message, deliver a stern message in a very loving, caring way. The reason why I'm delivering this message in the way that I'm delivering it is because I care about the sales profession. I want to elevate the sales profession and sometimes it's saying the things that need to be said as opposed to brushing them under the table or throwing them in the closet or dancing around it or using words just to avoid saying what really needs to be said. Sometimes the best things that need to be said, just need to say it, but say it in a very tender, loving, caring way.

And there's a lot of kindness and clarity. Well, if you're not giving someone feedback. And they keep repeating the same thing because no one's ever said, Hey, have you ever considered this is a different way?

Hey, that person's interpreting it wrong. And another thing that you had said was perception is reality. And I think that's something that if you can grasp that, it helps you kind of take yourself out of it. So if you are getting feedback, or if you're giving feedback, and it's challenging. It's all from how you're perceiving it being received.

So you can perceive it as, I can't believe Larry gave me that harsh feedback. What an a hole or wow, Larry cares so much about me and my success that he was able to, to bring up this uncomfortable conversation. It can be the exact same situation, but the way you're viewing it really puts you in the seat of control and that's something I only kind of recently learned and it's been really helpful in not taking things personally.

I mean, you really can't. And I learned this the hard way. I would take everything personal. I would really, and I'd beat myself up over it. And, you know, setting aside the percent, I mean, perception is reality.

I believe it a hundred percent. Some people may not believe me. That's okay. But whether you're a salesperson, sales leader, a solo entrepreneur, you're out doing stuff by yourself, you got to manage perception. You got to manage perception through the lens of the people who are interacting with you. That means sometimes you got to open yourself up for feedback.

You got to open yourself up for critique. You got to open yourself up for things that you may not want to hear because those are the things that are going to make you better. I've always said this. I write about it in both my books, feedbacks, the breakfast of champions. It's how you perceive the feedback.

See, professionals are going to take feedback with positivity. They're going to go think, bring it on, just bring it on as much feedback as you possibly can bring it on. Sales reps, they don't even want to hear anything about feedback because they're going to look at it through a negative lens. Why you beat me up all of this? I don't tell me right. I already knew that already been down there already been down that road. Y'all get where I'm going with this.

Let me ask you this. So. I feel like the people that need to hear this type of stuff the most are the people who don't listen to podcasts and don't do don't read business books.

I mean, some of the people that I've worked with her. I'm like, oh, you're just missing it. And it's because they don't do that self reflection. And I don't want to call it continuing education, but. There's a lot of knowledge out in the world and a lot of people that we can learn from. What are your thoughts on like the, the professional development from a, like a self starter standpoint?

You know what, first of all, there's no excuse around not doing any of this. I will tell you this, and it plays on what you said. This is an exaggeration. But this is going to prove what Sara and I are speaking about. You can get a PhD in knowledge, business knowledge for free on the internet by listening to business podcasts, by watching business oriented things on the internet.

By reading business journals and all that, not, I'm not even saying making an investment in buying business books or anything like that, but you can just fricking listen to business podcasts all day long, which by the way, cost you absolutely zero to listen to because they come in on your smartphone or you can Google them right?

You can watch freaking YouTube videos for free. You can talk to your current customers for free. You can talk to your friends for free. You could talk to influencers out in the marketplace for free. If you're willing to get vulnerable with it. So there's no, there's, there's literally no excuse why you can't continually educate yourself.

It goes back to, I'm a massive Napoleon Hill fan. I'm just a Napoleon Hill junkie. And Napoleon Hill once said, you know, I mean, obviously when I say he once said, because what, this is too bad. I can't meet this dude cause he checked out a life a long time ago, but he said, most people waller through life.

They're like a rudderless ship. It's sad. It's concerning, but that's okay. Right? If you want to carry, I'm not, I'm not here to say right, wrong, or indifferent. Y'all can carry your life. However you want to carry your life. But at some point in time, you'll hit a brick wall at some point in time. You're going to go, man, what's causing all of this?

Why am I doing the things that I'm doing? Money's not the root of everything, but money sure makes things go away. And I'm, and I'm sure this, whether you're in sales, whether you're in professional services, whether you're a solo entrepreneur, really doesn't matter. It's fair to say this, you want to make more money every year than you did before.

Agreed. You don't want to say, you know what, I made really good, I made really freaking good money this year, whatever freaking good money is. You know what? I think I'm going to take 30 percent less. I'm not, I'm not going to work that hard. I think I'm going to, I want to make 30 percent less than I did last year.

I don't know too many people who have that mentality. At least a run around in the circle. I run around in.

Well, I said, you probably don't hang out with the rudderless ships.

Yeah, but,there's a point behind this is to get you thinking you can't make more money year over year by not investing in yourself. You can't rely. It's so say you're a W2. You can't rely on your employer to constantly give you merit raises and tenure raises and things like that and that's your ability to earn more money. If that's all you're banking on, then. That's a mirror moment. But if you want to make more, whatever that more money is, it's a thousand bucks more than you made the fall, you know, previous year, you got to work on yourself.

You got to think about what do I need to do personally and professionally in development to earn that extra thousand bucks and not rely on my company to say, you know what? I've been doing such a great job. I deserve a thousand dollar bonus. Papooey on all of that stuff.

Yeah. Papooey. I love it. Well, I also think with, you have any direction, you have a vision, you're working on yourself, it gives off a type of energy that other people want to work with other people want to be around you get to meet other people like you because people want to do business with people that are doing something interesting and that are not draining you because the boring suits, the empty suits after a conversation with them. They leave you so drained.

People don't want to hang out with people that drain. They want to hang out with energizing people and the way you energize is by having interest in things. And I think that I really appreciate you saying that because sometimes it's nice to have that reminder and kind of that reframe.

Hey, listen, I've said this, I will, I will go toe to toe with anybody out there on this. If you don't bring passion and you don't bring excitement and you don't bring inspiration to what you're doing, stop it right now. Go find something else to do that you can bring passion to that, you get excited about, you can bring inspiration around. There's too many people that have a J. O. B for the sake of having a J. O. B. More power to them if that's how they want to carry their life. But if you're not bringing passion, excitement, inspiration, go find something else to do. Stop what you're doing. Go find something else to do. I know that's hard to hear, but there's a lot of truth behind it.

Well, and life is short, but it's also long. We have a life, so let's have fun with it while we're here.

But, but here's the thing, people notice this stuff.

Oh, big time.

Your customers notice this stuff. If you're out business developing, people pay attention to all of this stuff. They actually 100 percent do.

Larry has a chapter in this book that's, Are you boring your clients? And I laughed out loud because now that I have a business, I am now a customer in some ways. And now I'm on the receiving end of sales pitches. And some people are so boring. And I just let it roll off my brain. Cause I'm like, you know, you're not, I don't see any passion or excitement.

Why would I want to work with you? And I clearly don't matter to you. People can tell. I think that the BS meters are finally tuned post-trust world. We have different blinders on. So how are you going to break out from the noise? And you have a trust formula, correct?

It's all, it's all spelled out in Selling in a Post-Trust World. And it goes back to the story that I shared in the very beginning of our time together, where I was really challenged. I was challenged at the core around what is Selling from the Heart. And we got a successful podcast. Daryl Amy is my co-host. We have a successful podcast. It's how the book was built.

It's how this whole business was built that we call Selling from the Heart. But, executives want a lot of executives, unfortunately, think Selling from the Hearts, pixie sticks and rose petals. That's what they think it is, right? This is too lovey-dovey stuff. I can't deal with any of this stuff, but the subtitle of Selling in a Post-Trust World plays out.

Soft skills will drive and yield hard dollars, but it's all based on the trust formula, which I was challenged to by my business coach and business mentor. And, you know, we came up here at Selling from the Heart with the trust formula. I just ran with it. We coached to it. We've been coaching people and companies to it before the book was even out.

It's around four pillars. It's are you building authentic relationships, which is who, you know. And it's not surface level relationships. It's what do you really know? What do you know about these people personally, professionally? What makes them tick? What are their goals, dreams, aspirations? Where's their vision in life?

Some of y'all might be going, this doesn't play out in my space. It does. You just haven't thought about it that way. First leg of building trust is you got to build authentic relationships, and you got to combine it with meaningful value. Meaningful value is what you know. That's business smarts, business insights.

They both go hand in hand. Two sides of the trust coin, the accelerators on the trust formula. One's really exciting. One's tough. The exciting part of this is inspirational experiences. That's how you show up. So it's authentic relationships is who, you know, meaningful value’s what you know, inspirational experiences are how you show up, by the way, you're responsible for this.

If you're self-employed, you're responsible for it. If you're W2'd, you're responsible for it. It's not your employer, it's not your manager, it's not your leader. You are 100 percent responsible for how you show up and interact with your customers. And your prospects, you're 100 percent responsible for how you show up in the community, how you show up in the marketplace.

The last part of this is disciplined habits. And discipline habits is when you show up. Discipline habits by far is probably the hardest part of this because most adults that I know really struggle with self-discipline and self-discipline requires consistency and consistency in an inconsistent world is king and queen.

So if I remove disciplined habits, if I remove disciplined habits completely out of the trust formula, this whole thing falls apart. If you don't bring discipline habits to the forefront, you cannot build authentic relationships. You cannot bring meaningful value, cannot bring inspirational experiences.

It's the fourth leg of a chair. And that's the whole foundation and Selling in a Post-Trust World is we're taking the foundation of heart, authenticity, caring and Selling from the Heart. We call it given a rip. And we're putting some substance behind it in Selling in a Post-Trust World by saying, if you can implement these four foundations of the trust formula, you'll skyrocket revenue, you'll increase profits, you'll have a more fulfilling career and you'll feel better about yourself.

I freaking love it because I think let's go. So let's break down the four things and let's give examples for each. So authentic relationship building, that's kind of what we've been talking about in this conversation. Give us a tip on how to do that.

So here's, so here's what, here's what's interesting when it's not just relationships, it's authentic relationships. By the way, I got to preface this. I am no PhD, masters in all of this human psychology. In human behavior and all this, this is street savviness stuff. I learned from 30 years of getting the snot kicked out of me selling copy machines. So what I'm bringing to the forefront, what I'm sharing is through a practitioner's lens. Not through a professor's lens or a doctoral lens.

Why we relate to you.

So when I, when I think of authentic relationships, I think a congruency does the walk match the talk. So I want, I want, and I challenge people. I do this because I care. I don't do this to say I know more than you. I do this because I care.

And when I start thinking about relationships, authentic relationships, and when I ask people, so for all of you who are listening to this, I want you to, and this will really hone in on authentic relationships, Sara, I want you to think of your best customer right now. Just everyone, just think of your best.

Best customer, whoever that is, whatever industry you're calling into, and your best customer, my definition would be the one, if you're having a crappy day, you're calling this person as your go-to because they're going to put a smile on your face. I want you to think of all the key decision-makers and influencers that are in that business.

What do you really know about them? And what do they really know about you? What are three things you know about them personally? What are three things you know about them professionally? What are their hobbies? What are they like listening to? What are they like reading? What's their favorite restaurant they love going to?

What's their favorite food? What's their favorite vacation spot? What are their goals over the next 90 days? What are their dreams for their business? Where do they see themselves a year from now? I'm here to tell you this. If you don't know any of this, you don't have truly authentic relationships. That's my tip.

That's what I'd leave everyone to think about because it's so interesting 'cause I literally, I, I get fired up over this. I ask people this all the time, all the time. No one's taking me up on it because they don't want to get embarrassed. I'll say this, I want you to think of that again. I want you to think your best customer, that you got the best rock solid relationship with.

However you define it. Would you gimme their phone number? So I can call them and ask them to clearly define the relationship they have with you. But you're telling me the relationship's rock solid. Can I just validate it by simply giving them a call? Of course, no one's, it's the mirror moment.

I'm not saying y'all got crappy relationships. That's not the point behind any of this, the point is, is the relationship that you think you have with your best customer, Is that the relationship that they think it is? And if not, that's opportunity for improvement. I want relational alignment. I don't want to go through and by the way, I do this and my team does this at Selling from the Heart. I'm constantly on the quest for these authentic relationships, right? I leave no stone unturned, even with my Selling from the Heart clients around the relationship part of this, I'm pouring into the relationship. I want to know something about them.

Every time I get on a call. With one of my clients, I want to know something new about them. I want to bring something that I've learned from them to the forefront. And I want to share a little bit of me every single call. That's how you build these relationships. It requires an investment. We can't take them for granted.

Unfortunately, a lot of people take relationships for granted. They think they've got this thing wired until that customer stops doing business with you. And you wonder why. I'm just saying, I don't, I don't know.

That is, I mean, I appreciate that you gave us some really specific things to ask ourselves.

Cause I'm thinking as you know, I'm thinking about my clients as you're talking and there's definitely. Some of the questions I can answer, but there were a lot, I don't know if I know their hobbies. Actually, I gave a gift the other day to someone, one of my clients, our contract ended and I know he likes nice liquor.

So I was going to buy him a nice bottle of bourbon. And instead at the Ralph's, the grocery store, I found a candy cane filled with little fireball whiskeys. And I just kind of took a gamble. I said, I think he's going to think this is funny. So I wrote my thank you card. I gave him a candy cane left on his desk and I get a call from him and all of a sudden he is telling me about skiing and he will take the little mini shot skiing with him and now we're talking about where do you ski? Oh, I'm, I'm in Park City, da dah, dah. But I had no idea who was a skier and it was a little bit of like a, huh, I should know that because I live in a ski country.

You know, it's just, it was a little bit of a mirror moment for me too. I'm like, oh, but at least I got the opportunity to do a little percent, a little bit more. And I like. I think that, I think when people think about having, how do you do this? It's kind of a big nut to crack. How do you build this relationship? What you're telling us is giving some framework of things to ask ourselves. And then just a little bit more, a little bit more.

You know, that's all it is. It's like people go overboard with the stuff because right away, and I preface this every time I hop on calls with the teams that I work with, I said, I got to preface this.

I know I'm like a broken record on this, but y'all got to figure out the ways this could work and not immediately tell yourselves this doesn't work. And it's, and it's why in Selling from the Heart, one of my all time favorite quote in Selling from the Heart is this, “Salespeople have hypnotized themselves into believing what they're not doing doesn't work.”

Now there's some double negatives in their sales. I'll even take right. If you don't think you're a salesperson, if you're not in sales, by the way, I'd beg to differ, but we'll give you a benefit of the doubt. We'll take salespeople out of this. We'll just call people. People have hypnotized themselves into believing what they're not doing doesn't work.

So a vast majority all that might be listening to this or saying, I don't know, I doubt this. Well, I doubt this, right? You're coming up with all these excuses. Well, guess what? Have you even tried it? Just saying.

That's no, that's a really helpful reminder. Because I, I'm guilty of it for sure. I think everyone is to some degree and so authentic relationships, boom, meaningful value. I think that's the other thing, you know, you're talking about getting a PhD from the internet it's information is out there for all of us. I think what I really resonated with in that part of the formula was we always have to be adding value.

That's a big part of, you know, understanding their business model, asking questions, but also having business acumen. Because in a sales world, you, you said it so eloquently, you know, We're business, we're business professionals who sell versus a sales rep or a sales salesperson. So I really liked that reframe because this is a business conversation. It's a partnership when you're in, when you're in a sales role. So if people are listening, how can they focus on adding value to their clients?

Understand what value means to them. Again, this is simple stuff, yet so difficult to actually put into play. Again, this isn't rocket science stuff. It's really not. It goes back to the relationship part of this. Is the relationship what you think it is? Here's the other thing is the value that you're bringing to the table. What you think value is, is it what they think value is. That old saying values in the eye of the beholder is really true.

They will finally speak. And when they speak, you listen and you keep asking that you ask that to all of your customers. And pretty soon you'll understand how to bring value to your customers.

That simple.

I'm going to put that as our hook at the beginning of this podcast interview, because I feel like that's something we're going to want to replay over and over that script that you just gave us. So we are authentic relationship building. We're bringing meaningful value. Then the next is inspirational.

Experience is simple as this. It's how you show up. What are you doing to inspire and influence and wow your customers? What's really interesting is I'll give you an example. I came out of the office technology space. I sold copiers for almost 3 decades, late 80s all the way till 2015. It's almost 10 years ago, and I had a hard time putting profit in deals.

It goes back to, you know, things that happened in the past, right? Things like that. It's just the industry I came out of. So I had a really hard time putting profit in deals because A, it's just, I wanted to do what's right. And I had a hard time with money. A lot of things, salespeople and entrepreneurs have a hard time dealing with until I latched on to the experience part of this and I knew people would pay for an experience and I had to figure out in my space, what was my defining moment? That set me apart from everybody else. And my experience was, is this, that I walked around? I literally. I had to wear a business suit every single day to work, suit and tie. I carried Windex, window cleaner, and rags and rolls of paper towel in my car. And I went around to my clients and I cleaned their copy machines.

I cleaned the outside of the copy machines. I cleaned the glass. I opened drawers. I put paper in it, made sure everything was okay. Did I have to do that? No, people caught on to it. That was my inspirational experience. I was cleaning. Did I have to do it? Absolutely not. We had service technicians that could do that, but it was my opportunity to go in, build authentic relationships, learn something new about my customers that I didn't know before. Walk the halls, pay attention, be observant. Then I cleaned copiers and I put paper in it and I went and then I had to go wash my hands and things like that. People would see me doing all this before, you know, the stories were getting repurposed and the stories were getting repurposed. Pretty soon, I was known as the guy that cleaned copy machines.

And then when I was on boarding or bringing new customers into my dealership, I'd say, you know what, Sara, if you decide I'm the right person to help you with your office technology needs, let me share with you the experience that I'm going to be providing that you can expect from me, not my company that you can expect from me. On a monthly basis I'm going to be doing this on a quarterly basis. I'm going to be doing this. And their jaws would drop and I'd have to pick them up off the floor because no one, salespeople weren't sharing any of this. That was my defining moment that had a direct impact to profitability. That had a direct impact to sustainability for me in the sales career that I chose. That's inspirational experience.

I just want to ask everyone, what's the inspirational experience that you can bring? I happen to do a lot of work in food services and I was out riding, this was like a month ago with a salesperson. This person was going, man, Larry, I just don't under an inspirational experience. I don't get it. I don't understand. I said, you will be in that moment. You will find it, find something that you can wow somebody with.

So a couple of weeks ago, he walks into a restaurant to try to meet with the restaurant owner. Well, the restaurant owner is in a meeting and it happens to be in a meeting with one of his competitors. Cause they co share restaurants and things like that. Very common in food services. So he could have gone outside and waited, but right then and there he goes, what inspirational experience can I bring in the moment? And this person decided to get with food servers because they were prepping for the day.

And he saw them, he grabbed silverware and he started rolling silverware and napkins and put in the little circles around them, the tape around them. And he kept doing that. Then he filled salt and pepper shakers. Then he grabbed a rag and some Windex and he cleaned the front door. And as he's doing all of this, who do you think's watching out of the corner of his eye? The restaurant owner who's talking to his competitors. My friends, that's an inspirational experience.

Oh, I love it. Cause I think that applies to any type of role too. Not just sales roles. It's how can you go up differently. And that's really showing your character and kind of your personal brand too.

A hundred percent.

Post-trust world. That's just another asset. Another tool you have. I love those examples. So let's run it out with the fourth one. The hard one.

Discipline habits. This is the hardest one. I really feel this is the hardest one. Discipline habits requires self-discipline and it requires personal accountability. It's the glue. It's the Elmer's fricking glue to the whole trust formula. Without personal accountability, without self-discipline, without all these habits, none of this can take place. There's no secret sauce, there's no silver lining, there's no quick tip, no hack to get you from where you want to be to the destination you desire.

You just can't flip a light switch on and get light with this. It's going to require some work, but it's going to require discipline. It's going to require consistency. It's going to require holding yourself accountable to all this stuff. You just can't, you just can't like poof, all of a sudden all this happens.

Elite athletes don't become elite. Because they're a God's gift to the world, right? Heck, freaking Tom Brady was a six round draft pick in the NFL, if I'm not mistaken. Right? I mean, just think about it. Think about Brock Purdy, the quarterback for the 49ers, the last pick in the draft a couple years ago.

The last, Mr. Relevant. And now he's probably one of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL. Totally hilarious. Discipline habits, personal accountability. What are you going to double down on to become better? That's discipline habits. It's doing things, right? It's doing things over and over and over again, even if you feel like you don't want to do them.

That's pushing through and resilience. And you had a quote that I highlighted. You said, What is the difference between a salesperson or a business person who sells? The answer is responsibility and accountability.

Yep. 100%. It's deflection versus reflection. And I've always said this, right? The mirror never lies. Only the person looking into it lies. Think about that one. The mirror never, when it comes to accountability, the mirror never lies. Only the person looking into the mirror lies. And we know who that person is.

Yeah, I definitely have some areas that I want to work on here, you know, in terms of honing my craft, because that's what this is, we're athletes, we're sales athletes, if you will, professionals.

but I like those analogies because this is accessible to everyone. I think that that's really my, the thing that I get the most out of your work, Larry, is that all of this is accessible to everyone. It's easy, but it's not simple. Or simple, but it's not easy. Maybe that's a, that's a better way to say it.

So I just really, I, I feel so energized after talking to you. I know that your clients feel the same. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that I didn't ask you that we want to make sure we hit on before we close out our interview?

You know, I would just say this, and by the way, thank you for having me and, you know, thank you for entrusting me with your audience, but I would just say, this is, it goes back to feedback. I don't know everything. I don't even claim to know everything. I don't wake up every day with a know it all mindset. I wake up every day with a learn it all mindset, but I seek help from my inner circle. I really wake up every day and I'm craving feedback and I want to know because I want to become better.

So if there's anything I can leave your listeners with is this is in order to sell from the heart in order to sell in a post trust world, you got to bring your authentic self to the forefront. You got to figure out what makes you tick and not tick. What better way to do this than to find people in your inner circle, your friends, your family maybe it's even a close client. Have them find the roadblocks, have them sit down with you, right?

I always said, you know, business coaches and mentors, people in my close inner circle have helped me remove the roadblocks that have been stumped in my growth. Because I can't see things the way they can see it. So I would just ask everyone, you know, if you have a burning desire to succeed, however you all want to define it, Find somebody in your inner circle, friends, family, business associates that can help you remove the blinders. And then when they help you remove the blinders, take action on what they tell you. I'm always seeking out advice from people who have been there, done that, who can get me somewhere faster and farther.

I love it. And I think that there's a lot of us that have that inner our circle, we just need to remember that. It's okay to ask that.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Oh, awesome. Well, Larry, I will link, your books, the podcast, your website, and our show notes. But where can people find you if they wanna connect and learn more?

You can go to sellingfromtheheart.net. If you wanna find out what we're up to at Selling from the Heart, just go to sellingfromtheheart.net. I'm not too hard to find on social. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'm all over the place on LinkedIn at Larry Levine, 1992.

And since I know most people have a smartphone, if you text the word trust, T R U S T to 21000, you'll immediately get access to all kinds of free goodies. So just text the word trust to 21000.

Wow. Awesome. Okay. I love it. I'm going to text it as soon as we wrap. Thank you so much for joining us on Prospecting On Purpose.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

If you loved what you heard today, subscribe to the podcast and please rate and leave a review. For more info on me, or if you'd like to work together, feel free to go to my website, Saramurray.com. On social media, I'm usually hanging out @Saramurraysales. Thanks again for joining me and I'll see you next time.

Connect with Larry:

Website: Selling from the Heart

Connect with Sara

https://www.saramurray.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@saramurraysales
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saramurraysales/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saramurraysales/